Curse

VitisVinifera · Jul 22, 2006, 09:01 PM // 21:01

what I'd like to see is some character development from Cynn, Aiden, Devona, Mhenlo, and especially Eve (very mysterious).

I'd like to see something where we follow them, help them out, perhaps something with their home or family, and actually get some character development.

Beyond that, please PLEASE better voice acting. Between Danika (like oh my gawd!) and that spirit dude in Crystal Desert that you do some missions with, we have some room for improvement.

natuxatu · Jul 22, 2006, 09:25 PM // 21:25

I thought Prophices story was great. Far more than I would have expected from this game. I mean come on there were even some pretty good twists and the plot kept getting more interesting and the focus changing yet not (you know what i mean)

Factions... hehe I didn't like it very much because well it makes sense and all but it makes sense in a silly way. Again it's my opinion and some people could love both... BUT

Since I guess this is the Tyria team... then I imagine this story will be better than Factions and at least as good as Prophices story for those who liked that one better.

Kay I'll go now...

edit: voice acting could totally use some improvement yes. I could do better, probably most of us could.. I wonder who is doing the acting... certainly they could shell out a little moola to get some voice actors...

And finally... saying "Will the storyline in this one suck too" makes me think that no matter what you are going to go into Nightfall nitpicking at everything you can find and with just a down right negative attitude so if that is the case then yeah chances are you'll think it sucks also.

Xistence · Jul 22, 2006, 09:33 PM // 21:33

I'm sorry guys but i have to say that even though the plot isn't the greatest out there for both games, i still stayed on to watch the cutscenes to get as much info as possible into the story but it seems that whenever i do play almost everyone skips the cutscenes after a mission, and i'm talking about players that have played that mission for the first time. so how can anyone try to appreciate the story if u don't take the time to listen and see the cutscenes to explain the story a bit?

fallot · Jul 22, 2006, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xistence

listen and see the cutscenes

Are you kidding me ? Danika's voice can actually give you cancer.

Urban_Nomad · Jul 22, 2006, 09:41 PM // 21:41

*spoilers, but if you're reading this thread you're kind of asking for it*

Prophecies may not have had the strongest storyline, but it was executed very well. And although Factions had more emotional dialogue, it was really Prophecies that drew you in more. And not just because of "plot devices" either. When the White Mantle betrayed you, it really felt like a betrayal, as Confessor Dorian ordered the Mantle to destroy the Shining Blade. When Jalis's brother joined you on the trip to the Ring of Fire, you felt proud to have that dwarf with the overdone, yet awesome, accent on your side. When you met Rurik again on the islands, it definitely felt more dramatic than Togo's death.

Factions just kind of rushed everything. I'm not sure whether they wanted sympathy for Shiro or not, between the gameplay and the fortune-teller scenes. The Alliance missions went too quickly, the clans just kind of got together on their own, your help didn't account for much of it.

All in all, Prophecies was a good story, and "plot devices" don't make it cheaper in my opinion.

VitisVinifera · Jul 22, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallot

Are you kidding me ? Danika's voice can actually give you cancer.

The Ghostly Hero's voice (from the various Crystal Desert mission cutscenes) can give you the aids.

The problem I have with the Proph story is that it spends the first ten hours our so building up the Charr and the Searing. If you read the literature that came with the game, it's almost entirely about the Charr invasion. Once you get to Yak's Bend, you don't hear a damn thing about them any more. And the new apocalpytic enemy becomes the Stone Summit then the White Mantle then the Mursaat then Titans then this then that....it's basically the same story <insert new apocalpytic enemy here>. I lost interest when there was little continuity, just plug n play enemies.

fallot · Jul 22, 2006, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitisVinifera

The Ghostly Hero's voice (from the various Crystal Desert mission cutscenes) can give you the aids.

I agree, he can give you AIDS, but not with his voice. Ghostly dude is cool. Eviscerate + Executioner's cool.

dansamy · Jul 22, 2006, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by sins

Prophacy storyline got lame.

Factions... storyline started lame and ended lame.

Nightfall... will they hire someone who actually can write a coherent and interesting storyline?

I don't really give a hoot about the story line.

Artemis Faul · Jul 23, 2006, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Prophecies was... acceptable. The marshlands were horrible but apart from that, it was ok. Factions - horrible. I got bored after the first three missions. I know GW isn't about storyline, but still... A bit of effort on that would get them more new players imo, expecially cause most new players (new to the MMORPGs, not just GW) prefer PvE to PvP.

Safer Saviour · Jul 23, 2006, 02:37 PM // 14:37

The stories in both were awful, cringeworthy even. Guild Wars really suffers from a lack of innovation in story (both wider plot and short quests). Still, the gameplay's fun.

fallot · Jul 23, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

The most enjoyable parts of both games (barring missions) were the earlier regions (pre-searing and Shing Jea). Even though they may present some challenge (Shing Jea in particular), you didn't have to wade through a huge amount of enemies or navigate a maze (i.e the city, while its easy to dodge a lot of groups when you're familiar with the place, it takes a lot of circuitous time wasting to get where you want to regardless) to get to the relevant bit.

Minus Sign · Jul 23, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Roman a Clef, I believe is the proper spelling for the term, or novel with a key. The greats used these tricks to add depth and meaning to their work; notably Hemmingway and The Sun Also Rises.

The idea is that certain things remain ambiguous (stock and trade with Anet storylines, so I hear) and only become clear to the reader when that missing piece is applied. When that key is found, readers get that "ah ha" moment of clarity, the feeling of accomplishment when they start to view the whole story in a new light; things that seemed unimportant at the time become clear and meaningful. Words the characters choose with seeming care (in light situations) become important, powerful.

There are, however, several problems with this writing strategy for a video game:

Too many of your viewers are teenagers who do not want to think, or adults who do not want to think. That’s right; me included. I want my meaningless hack and slash save the world action story that chugs along one-way like a train down the track. When I want a brain teaser I play puzzle games and text-based RPGs; not a Competitive Online RPG. make our brains work when we don't want to, we press "skip" every time.

This kind of writing requires that characters be extremely engaging and realistic. Even people who don't get Hemmingway remark that his characters are "ordinary people". Ordinary because these characters are people that you can relate to, at any level. They seem human from the start and continue to be.

Adding a human quality to Guild Wars would change this from T to M in a heartbeat. This is a war story. Dealing with the reality of this violent game (omgz; I just killed that Char!) ain't in it. Kids won't get it, softer hearts would take offense. Example; look at the player reaction to the Kurzick/Luxon mini-quests placed in LA pre-Factions. All, team and guild chat; there was a certain level of bewilderment upon completing these quests when people realized “The Kurzicks are dead…and they’re not coming back…because I killed them”.

This was just a lack of respawn with a couple bones scattered on the ground, but people seeing it, being forced to look at this as they passed the area…well, it was shaking to younger players and some of the elders took offense. It was a powerful statement, and one of the better quests in the game because of it, imho. It harkened back to FF7 and Aeris. But it was not rated Teen in after quest content because we killed these people. Unlike Aeris and this all-time great RPG, we are not the avengers saving the world from an evil that has also taken a valued friend's life. Instead of giving us an emotional attachment to the fight--a personal stake in kicking Sephiroth's butt as FF7 did--it forces players to become detached, lest they have to "deal" with the consequences. Many younger players can't.

So, to keep this T, you keep the characters (their lives and their story) on the lighter side. They don’t deal with the issues of life and death; they fight the evil Afflicted (*cough*Flood!*cough*) and Shiro, their master. But you still tried to give Shiro a human face; show his pain and the anguish of his decision. In a lightly characterized story this becomes, not a powerful struggle within Shiro between his duty to the Empire and his desire to live (yes, I get the inherent Asian influence and how betraying his master made him far more evil than most American/Europeans would precieve) but comical and sad (to watch; not emotionally).

To people searching for a good story, light can somethimes come off as vacuous. Its the price you pay for playing a story driven game that young teenagers are also playing.

IMHO, the best part of story mode was the interchange between Menhlo and his various lady friends, with Cynn ready to burn them all to a cinder. I’d have liked nothing more than to see her chase Menhlo around at the end, casting fireballs at his butt after he made a pithy comment about her envious behavior, but that might have been too light.

Which makes the Roman a Clef used in factions crumple like a minion with too much degen. The small key holes become canyons of misunderstanding; these tiny plot holes that help the story evolve as people learn “the truth” are, instead, massive areas of gray and black that no mind can grasp, even when you give us the answer. And by the time we do (in chapter 3 I hope) we don’t care anymore.

To be frank: you were too smart for your own good with Factions story, and it came back to bite you in the ---. Just give us our mindless hack and slash Tolkien-esk struggle between good versus evil in the future. Everyone will be happier that you did.

natuxatu · Jul 23, 2006, 04:59 PM // 16:59

To keep it simple.

1. At least it has a main story period.

2. It's online rpg. they can't make it too complicated as not everyone will play every day and may get lost or confused. Guild Wars may be your life (it may be mine) but it certainly isn't everyones.

Simple Story = Easy Accessablity

BigTru · Jul 23, 2006, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Final Fantasy XI had a powerful, complex story and was still rated T. Are you saying that having a non-black and white story is bad?

natuxatu · Jul 23, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

No I'm not saying it's bad but FFXI (which I love by the way) is not a pick up and play casually for a half an hour to hour a day which is what A.Net has stated as one of the perks of Guild Wars. Kay? Kay.

BigTru · Jul 23, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

No I'm not saying it's bad but FFXI (which I love by the way) is not a pick up and play casually for a half an hour to hour a day which is what A.Net has stated as one of the perks of Guild Wars. Kay? Kay.

I was actually refering to Minus Sign's post, but the reason FFXI is not a casual pick-up and play game isn't because of it's story, it's because of it's leveling and Notorious Monster and it's economy.

If they created Final Fantasy XI, they could have told the original story within a 13 mission segment if they'd wanted to (Final Fantasy XI [before the expansion packs] have a total of 10 non-skippable missions, the first four were mostly fluff). They'd just have to rework certain scenes.

The point is, you don't have to have a crappy story just because it's a "pickup and play" game.

McMullen · Jul 23, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Prophecies was great.. or at least, it started out great.
A war with some beasts, pretty generic but i really didn't expect to see Ascalon get blown up like that. After that it wasn't great, though not bad either.

I'd like to see more choice anyway, multiple endings. Playing the uber-leet-hero-who-will-save-the-day-and-kick-the-bad-guys-backside gets really boring.
I want something like:
"This key character is being attacked"
And choices like "Too far.. i'm gonna leave him to fend for himself" or "Lets run in, twat that big baddy thingy and save him!"

I don't want to follow a linear storyline.

Safer Saviour · Jul 23, 2006, 09:14 PM // 21:14

A little variation in the quests would be nice too. In Devil May Cry, there's a couple of 'take this here' quests that have been altered slightly into 'take this here before it consumes your life' - adds a little bit of imediacy to the problem. In the infamous and often mentioned Final Fantasy VII, there are several chases/escapse incorporating various means of transportation and skills; the submarine is a hunter game, the snowboarding run about timing and the motorcycle chase about reacting quickly whilst remaining aware of enemies and your own health. On top of that FFVII has its betting, chocobo training/racing (and more betting on that), a rollercoaster where you shoot things as you go round for points and a hounted house hotel, a really gimicky one, not to mention a the fortune teller

A little varation in the actual gameplay would go a long way to GWs longevity and if woven into the story might help younger players pay a little more attention to it. In addition, betting on guilds and a maybe a few gimmicks thrown into PvP once in a while to make things more challenging for the experienced (FFVII's battle square took away abilities/health/attributes, added afflictions, or maybe even cured you on a pure chance slot result each round).

Minus Sign · Jul 23, 2006, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

I was actually refering to Minus Sign's post, but the reason FFXI is not a casual pick-up and play game isn't because of it's story, it's because of it's leveling and Notorious Monster and it's economy.

If they created Final Fantasy XI, they could have told the original story within a 13 mission segment if they'd wanted to (Final Fantasy XI [before the expansion packs] have a total of 10 non-skippable missions, the first four were mostly fluff). They'd just have to rework certain scenes.

The point is, you don't have to have a crappy story just because it's a "pickup and play" game.

That’s not what I said. I said that the holes in the Factions story were a fault of the tools Anet is using to build Guild War's story based on the restrictions of a single PoV narrative for the teenage targetted audience.

I can't comment of FFXI; I don't pay to play anymore. I shouldn't have called linear story telling "mindless". In fact there are quite a few stories that are engaging for different audiences and never leave the PoV of one character.

Example: Halo Combat Evolved. Everything we see from the point of his revival is from the Master Chief’s perspective and the story was considered an instant classic at the time.

***spoiler***

Even the cutscene where Captain Keys is captured by the Flood is told from the PoV of the MC watching a recording through a dead soldier’s helmet. This type of flashback could have been put into Factions easily without compromising the story driven content or trying to subvert the player’s emotions with useless information.

EX:

The team has successfully made it through the Naphui Quarter Mission and are speaking to Suune. Instead of being a jerk and telling them to get lost, Suune confides in them.

Suune: “There is little remaining about him from before the time of Shiro’s madness, but what I do know may help you.” As he speaks the camera zooms in closer on his face and the screen turns white. “We know that Shiro was trusted first among the Emperor’s body guard, and before that he had distinguished himself as a great warrior or honor and integrity.” As Suune speaks, several cutscene pics are shown with a white border, depicting Shiro facing tengu, who at that time were in uprising, and fighting for the Canthans to quell Luxon/Kurzick uprisings.

Fade to a young Shiro in regular imperial guard armor with the tell tale scars. Enter fortune teller; Suune narration continues. “Those who have become closer to the Stars know too that Shiro was We No Su, led to the path by the most unlikely of sources,” begin dialogue with Shiro and Fortuneteller.

All of a sudden—from information available IN the cutscene--we’re fighting a renegade We No Su instead of some dead guy that went nuts a few hundred years ago and now he’s back. We’re still linear, there’s no hiding information. It’s just being given out piecemeal as you progress. More important, there is a reason for the first fortuneteller scene. Beyond basic character introduction (and we’ve already seen Shiro; he just killed us a mission ago, remember?) there is none in the way “sane” Shiro’s debut is portrayed. So, why is the fortune teller, the only new aspect to the story, important? We find out at the end, when Shiro goes crazy due to her prediction.

This type of information—given freely as the player watched--could easily have continued its incorporation through Tanakai, Boreas, Arborstone and a final revelation at Unwaking Waters through the mouths of those who had lived and fought with him and then been forced to fight AGAINST him. It also begs the question (to those who want to think beyond the story line given); all our henchmen go through the same experiences with us in Prophecies and Tyria, becoming Ascended or We No Su. Could the next villain be in our ranks? What would it be like if we were leveling the next Darth Vader in Ch 3 or 4?

Now, I’m pulling stuff out of my – here, but its still a smoother transition than what we get in game. Fade to black, see fortune teller, see Shiro walking by (oh, we must be a few hundred years in the past now; ok…um…how’d we get here?) begin dialogue. No; they wanted a “mystery”. Translation: Put the pieces together on your own, but don’t work too hard; the puzzle’s not complete yet. The way it’s portrayed, Roman a clef rated T for Teen, makes Factions disjointed to most viewers, jarring and unimportant. They don’t take the time to read the text because there’s no story being given in the cutscenes.

EDIT: sry for the slow reply. been having trouble getting Guru to run the last few days.

Kook~NBK~ · Jul 23, 2006, 11:36 PM // 23:36

The Prophecies story line was chessy, but that's what I expected from the game.

The Factions "storyline," to use the term loosely, was horrid. Or maybe it was presented in such a way as to be completely annoying and make one not want to pay attention to it. The fingernails-on-chalkboard voices and the Dialogue bubbles (which I gave up on reading) made me lose all interest in the actual story, I just wanted to get through the missions and get it over with!